Jeanne - a great treasure

FIFTH PRIVATE EXAMINATION

(In the text footnotes are in bold)

Wednesday, March 14th. - Jean Delafontaine, assisted by Nicolas Midi and Gerard Feuillet. Witnesses: Nicolas de Houbent and Ysambard de la Pierre.

Jeanne was interrogated as follows:

"Why did you throw yourself from the top of the Tower at Beaurevoir?"

"I had heard that the people of Compiegne, all, to the age of seven years, were to be put to fire and sword; and I would rather have died than live after such a destruction of good people. That was one of the reasons. The other was that I knew I was sold to the English ; and I had rather die than be in the hands of my enemies, the English."

"Did your Saints counsel you about it?"

"Saint Catherine told me almost every day not to leap, that God would help me, and also those at Compiegne. I said to Saint Catherine: 'Since God will help those at Compiegne, I wish to be there.' Saint Catherine said to me, 'Be resigned, and do not falter: you will not be delivered before seeing the King of England.' I answered her: 'Truly I do not wish to see him; I would rather die than fall into the hands of the English.'"

"Is it true that you said to Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret: 'Will God leave these good people of Compiegne to die so horribly'?"

"I did not say 'so horribly,' but, 'How can God leave these good people of Compiegne, who have been, and are, so loyal to their lord, to die ?' After having fallen, I was two or three days without eating. By the leap I was so injured that I could neither eat nor drink; and all the time I was consoled by Saint Catherine, who told me to confess, and to beg pardon of God; and, without fail, those at Compiegne would have help before Martin's Day in the winter. Then I began to recover and to eat, and was soon cured." (1)....(Jeanne says that her leap from the tower was "towards the end," and as the town of Compiegne was in great straits in October, she probably made her attempt at escape towards the end of that month. The army of relief under the Count de Vendome started on October 25th, and the siege was raised early in November.)

"When you made this leap, did you think you would kill yourself?"

"No; but, in leaping, I commended myself to God. I hoped by means of this leap to escape, and to avoid being delivered up to the English."

"When speech returned to you, did you not blaspheme and curse God and His Saints? This is proved by allegation."

"I have no memory of having ever blasphemed and cursed God and His Saints, in that place or elsewhere."

"Will you refer this to the inquire made or to be made?"

"I refer me to God and not to any other, and to a good confession."

"Do your Voices ask delay to answer you?"

"Sometimes Saint Catherine answers me, but I fail to understand because of the great disturbance in the prison and the noise made by my guards. When I make a request to Saint Catherine, both my Saints make request to Our Lord; then, by order of Our Lord, they give answer to me."

"When your Saints come to you, have they a light with them? Did you not see the light on a certain occasion when you heard the Voices in the Castle, without knowing if the Voice were in your room?"

"There is never a day that my Saints do not come to the Castle; and they never come without light. And as to this Voice of which you speak, I do not remember if on that occasion I saw the light or even Saint Catherine. I asked three things of my Voices - My deliverance; That God would come to the help of the French, and protect the towns under their control; The salvation of my soul."

[Addressing herself to the Judges :] If it should be that I am taken to Paris, grant, I pray you, that I may have a copy of my questions and answers, so that I may lend them to those at Paris, and that I may be able to say to them: 'Thus was I questioned at Rouen; and here are my answers : in this way, I shall not have to trouble again over so many questions."

"You said that my Lord of Beauvais puts himself in great danger by bringing you to trial; of what danger were you speaking? In what peril or danger do we place ourselves, your Judges and the others?"

"I said to my Lord of Beauvais, 'You say that you are my Judge; I do not know if you are, but take heed not to judge wrongly, because you would put yourself in great danger; and I warn you of it, so that, if Our Lord should punish you for it, I shall have done my duty in telling you."

"But what is this peril or danger?"

"Saint Catherine has told me that I shall have help; I do not know if this will be to be delivered from prison, or if, whilst I am being tried, some disturbance may happen, by which I shall be delivered. The help will come to me, I think, in one way or the other. Besides this, my Voices have told me that I shall be delivered by a great victory; and they add: 'Be resigned ; have no care for thy martyrdom; you will come in the end to the Kingdom of Paradise.' They have told me this simply, absolutely, and without fail. What is meant by my martyrdom is the pain and adversity that I suffer in prison; I do not know if I shall have still greater suffering to bear; for that I refer me to God."

"Since your Voices told you that you would come in the end to the Kingdom of Paradise, have you felt assured of being saved and of not being damned in Hell?"

"I believe firmly what my Voices have told me, that I shall be saved; I believe it as firmly as if I were already there."

"After this revelation, do you believe that you cannot commit mortal sin ?" (2)....(The Minute inverts the order of this and the following question and answer.)

"I do not know, and in all things I wait on Our Lord."

"That is an answer of great weight!"

"Yes, and one which I hold for a great treasure."
SIXTH PRIVATE EXAMINATION

The same day, Wednesday, March 14th, in the afternoon. Present : Jean Delafontaine, Commissary, assisted by Nicolas Midi and Gerard Feuillet. Witnesses: Brother Ysambard de la Pierre and Jean Manchon.

And in the first place, Jeanne expressed herself thus:

"On the subject of the answer that I made to you this morning on the certainty of my salvation, I mean the answer thus: provided that I keep the promise made to Our Lord, to keep safe the virginity of my body and soul."

"Have you any need to confess, as you believe by the revelations of your Voices that you will be saved?"

"I do not know of having committed mortal sin; but, if I were in mortal sin, I think that Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret would abandon me at once. I do not think one can cleanse one's conscience too much."

"Since you have been in the prison, have you never blasphemed or cursed God?"

"No; sometimes I said: 'bon gre Dieu,' or 'Saint Jean,' or 'Notre Dame' : those who have reported otherwise may have misunderstood."

"To take a man at ransom, and to put him to death, while a prisoner, is not that mortal sin?"

"I never did it."

"What did you do to Franquet d'Arras, who was put to death, at Lagny?"

"I consented that he should die if he had merited it, because he had confessed to being a murderer, thief, and traitor; his trial lasted fifteen days; he had for Judge the Bailly of Senlis and the people of the Court at Lagny. I had given orders to exchange this Franquet against a man of Paris, landlord of the Hotel de l'Ours. When I learnt the death of the latter, and the Bailly told me that I should do great wrong to justice by giving up Franquet, I said to the Bailly, 'As my man is dead, do with the other what you should do, for justice.'

"Did you give, or cause to be given, money to him who took Franquet?"

"I am not Master of the Mint or Treasurer of France to pay out money so."

"We recall to you: That you attacked Paris on a Feast Day; That you had the horse of my Lord the Bishop of Senlis; That you threw yourself down from the Tower of Beaurevoir; That you wear a man's dress; That you consented to the death of Franquet d'Arras: do you not think you have committed mortal sin in these?"

"For what concerns the attack on Paris, I do not think myself to be in mortal sin; if I have so done, it is for God to know it, and the Priest in confession. As to the horse of my Lord the Bishop of Senlis, I firmly believe I have not sinned against Our Lord: the horse was valued at 200 gold crowns, of which he received assignment; nevertheless, this horse was sent back to the Sire de la Tremouille, to restore it to my Lord of Senlis; it was not fit for me to ride; besides, it was not I who took it; and, moreover, I did not wish to keep it, having heard that the Bishop was displeased that it had been taken from him, and, beyond all this, the horse was of no use for warfare. I do not know if the Bishop was paid, nor if his horse was restored to him; I think not. As to my fall from the Tower at Beaurevoir, I did not do it in despair, but thinking to save myself and to go to the help of all those brave folk who were in danger. After my fall, I confessed myself and asked pardon. God has forgiven me, not for any good in me: I did wrong, but I know by revelation from Saint Catherine that, after the confession I made, I was forgiven. It was by the counsel of Saint Catherine that I confessed myself."

"Did you do penance for it?"

"Yes, and my penance came to me in great part from the harm I did myself in falling. You ask me if I believe this wrong which I did in leaping to be mortal sin? I know nothing about it, but refer me to God. As to my dress, since I bear it by command of God and for His service, I do not think I have done wrong at all; so soon as it shall please God to prescribe it, I will take it off.